HOH: Kyland
HAVENOTS:
Nominations: Hannah and Tiffany
Power of Veto Players: Everyone
Power of Veto: Kyland
Power of Veto Ceremony: ?
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1:40 am Kyland and X
Kyland – what I would say is that.. how high is your concern about being backdoored
X – not high at all. I have zero concerns.
Ky – I want you at zero that is the purpose of the nominations.
Ky – after Tiffany leaves
X – people will pressure to come after you?
Ky – not pressure it just has to do with.. I do believe that any sort of tension from the revelations from the none cookout members will be pretty Subsided.. there’s no one that will forgive me that will also forgive you. the effect will be minimal. I feel like as competitors we will be pretty close. It will probably lean to you. We’ll see with the final HOH if we can get there. With Tiffany gone the only person that would have a chance sitting next to you even.. I’m taking you..
X – What is your concern?
Ky basically says his concern is X not taking him in the final 3.
They go on about how they are good. Their name is the “The gentleman” if that is taken they’ll use “The gentleman’s club”
X says he wasn’t to beat someone that he knows played a good game. “plus if I lose to you I know I’m still getting a cheque I’m not going home broke. I can still do things for my nephew with 75K”
X – my biggest incentive to take you I don’t know what the Jury will do with BIGD
Ky – that is another thing
X – if I take BIGD it will either be a landslide or it’ll be ..
X – I could never take Azah to the final two she’s the only person that has played honestly
Ky – Hannah said abotu Azah.. I think her role in the cookout was crucial but you should play more of the game to want to win. That is more likely to be a win over BIGD, to be honest.
X says Azah was able to play a honest game because the other members of the Cookout weren’t.
X – I am assuming you are keeping nominations the same
Kyland – I am thinking about it.
X – pull Hannah down to get in her good graces?
Kyland – that’s where I’m leaning
X – put up who?
Ky – who would make sense in your head
X – Azah
Ky – I think BIGD.. I’m thinking from this perspective. At the end of the day, I want to make sure you and I are getting to the end.
Ky says Hannah has a better chance to win the next HOH over BIGD he needs to make a deal with Hannah to keep him safe then he could put BIGD up.
They go back and forth if they have the votes with BIGD on the block because Azah has been talking a lot with Tiffany.
X says worst-case scenario is Hannah and Azah vote out BIGD and it’s Tiffany, Azah and Hannah VS him in the HOH “I can beat them but it does decrease our chances.. it’s 3 vs 1 and in the veto, it’s 3v2. we lose our numbers if BIGD goes out”
Ky – that is the risk
X – I wonder if that risk outweighs..
Ky – I can always say to Hannah we have the votes.
X says if they can get a deal with Hannah for next week without using the veto that will be their best-case scenario.
Kyland agrees.
They hug
2:20 am – 4:00 am Kyland and Tiffany
T – There are so many things in my head I’m going to try and organize them.
T – my mind has been all over the place. Yesterday I felt like my life in this game is over.
Ky – pre veto
T – yeah I felt like.. you were .. I don’t want to say I felt like you were the only person I had. I felt like if I didn’t have you I didn’t really have much in this game. Yesterday after the ceremony I was like I completely lost him. Not that I quit I was just accepting I’m going home
T – Whatever happens, it’s supposed to happen if I win I win if I don’t I don’t
T – I did some self-reflection.. how did I get to this point. In the house things happen very quickly your come back to happens very quickly it’s not like that in the real world.
T – I knew I lost I was supposed to lose.. I needed to be humbled I thought about what are my chances at staying in this game.. the only chance I have staying in this game is you.
T – my ego was in the way, my pride was in the way when I lost that was god going let me humble you real quick. In the real world I don’t need anybody I don’t want to need anybody. I will be cold I will starve I will be homeless I will suffer to not need anybody. Today I realized I can’t make it like that. I’ve learned a lot of things in this house
Tiff says the one question she’s been asking herself “was she was supposed to trust him or was she never supposed to trust him”
Tiff – maybe it’s not.. maybe it’s not that you trusted the wrong man it’s that you didn’t trust the right man.
Ky – It’s not that you trusted the wrong man it’s you stopped trusting the right one.
Tiff – I was talking to America and saying Maybe I was wrong. It’s hard for me to admit that. I started thinking about why did I stop or doubt and so I’m like I took the game you played in this house and I watched you with people and then I wondered is he playing that same game on me?
Tiff – I never question your character. You mean what you say you think about it. I respect that.
Tiff says she needed to be humbled and losing the veto “humbled me bad.. at 40”
Tiff – the lesson I needed to learn is I do need people. I need to be able to recognize that. I need to accept when I’m wrong and I need to apologize cause I was. Things you expected and wanted from me was loyalty and trust my loyalty and trust and you had not done anything for me to not. I do realize that up until that point none of us owe anything from the six we never had to go and be saved. This is the first time I had to fight for myself in this house and it’s a humbling experience.
Tiff – I was going to leave and go home but this is a conversation I need to have. This conversation Is me totally setting my pride to the side and my ego to the side.
Tiff – My game in this house is over unless you save me.
Tiff – if you save me I would have no obligations or loyalty to anyone else you are my only lifeline in this house. I have not gone to anybody to ask them to save me I’ve not asked for any votes and I am not. I don’t want to owe anybody anything. I don’t want to be here.
Tiff – you have the power to keep me and that’s it to do that for me you have my unconditional loyalty and respect.
Tiff – I don’t care who walks out that door unless it’s not me. There would be no way I will go against you not a vote, not on the block. Not making a decision without having your input and talking about it because I know the chances of me going home on Thursday are way greater than me staying here
Tiff – I want to work with you and only you I don’t have a choice I know I have put myself in front of some decisions I have made maybe claire.. that was still myself. My life in this game is hanging by a thread. No one is offering me anything
Tiff – I have to ask you for loyalty and to trust me again.. if I am here I will back those words up with actions
Tiff – I don’t want to play this game alone and I don’t want to play it without you
Tiff – I need you to keep me here I don’t have anyone that can offer me that. You can just take these as words.. I am a woman of value I could not lie to Claire. Not only that my son is watching me, Mamma Pat is watching me. IF i lie to you if I break my promise to you I cold lose a friend in the house. I have disappointed my family. I have let my son down. I have broken something that I would have to work way to hard to get back outside this house.
Tiff doesn’t want to embarrass herself and her family by going back on her word with Ky, “I feel that I have embarrassed myself enough”
Tiff – the game itself is not that important to me if I go home I go home but this conversation was something I needed to get off my chest.
Tiff – keeping me I am totally indebted to you.. I will gladly take a second-place prize over leaving Thursday. I know you said you wanted to take a competitor to the end and today I might have been not out of the competitor’s list (She did poorly in the BB comic comp)
They laugh
Tiff – you will never have to question me and I will never question you. I feel bad that I did cause I know that .. I know you are a great guy you are a person that says and does what he means. I have watched you in this game move strategically like I have.
Tiff – I don’t know if it’s a option for you to keep me in this game. I do know there is no one else willing to turn their game over to you and trust you in what you do and to always have your back moving forward none of us owe each other anything.
Tiff goes no about being truthful to him. “you said to me love me or not just be loyal”
Tiff – I know what that means.. I’m not just saying that I will always back that up with action. I don’t have anybody in this game. I don’t want to move forward with anybody in this game.
Ky – I can make a direction I can’t make a final decision on anything until I have all the conversations I need to have and I think that I am someone that evaluates all the options.
Tiff – if I am in this house I am still everyone’s target
Ky – if you have an opportunity to better yourself at one point near the end..
T – no
Ky – those are within the rules of the game so you are not disappointing anyone
Feeds cut When we’re back
Ky – I fully believe it. the question would be what can be said that makes us not Dan and Frank from 14?
Tiff – if you keep me for one week and you don’t see that I am loyal to you and that I am working strictly with you have whoever wins put me on the block you can make the nominations you can run this entire thing I just do not want to give up my game because I didn’t trust what I already had.
Tiff – you can send me home anybody can send me home next week. I am not asking anybody for a vote. Little Hannah I love little Hannah that’s my baby. this ain’t BIG LOVE. I Will never choose Hannah over you. I will never choose X I will never choose Azah I will never choose Derek.
Ky – what about Tiffany? 3:10
T – I will never choose myself.. doing that got me here.. Unconditional respect. Unconditional loyalty. That means under any condition we are doing things together. I will never choose my own personal over what I have promised to you
Tiff – keeping me in this game you have somebody that is 1000% with you and only you nobody in this house will be able to get me to do anything for them.
Ky – one concern in this conversation is people in this house will vote the way I want them to that is a misperception.. that doesn’t have confidence.
Tiff – I do know if you wanted to keep me here I would stay
Ky – it would be helpful if you.. can start evaluating what moving forward will look like both with me using the veto on you and not using it on you.
Ky – the view you are expressing is very limited in terms of the actions of last week have affected everyone and so me campaigning in my speech and using the veto on you changes things in the house and so I need to.. It’s great that you are loyal to me and then not if we’re sitting on the block together. Where things are right now in this very moment this very second if we’re sitting on the block together you would leave. If you are sitting on the block together because I kept you here it would be me in some scenarios. Those are the scenarios that are not being accounted for in this conversation.
Tiff says she doesn’t want to damage his game by being in the house but she believes keeping her in this house is beneficial to his game.
Ky – you are a target in this house regardless if you have the support of someone else or if you are alone. You might think you have support but I don’t think you do. I know you have mine. I am willing to fight for you all I can do is ask for the opportunity to show you that. If keeping me here ruins your game I don’t want that. It’s not worth it.
Tiff – I want you to go further and I want you to win if keeping me prohibits that then you can’t keep me and I understand. I also don’t know if not having me ensures you stay any longer. If I’m here and they want you out that buys me another week.
Tiff – anybody will keep you long-term. I don’t think anybody will keep you at three and have to choose between anybody else and say I will take Kyland. I would but we have to get there.
Tiff – I’m sorry. I know people want me gone and they will always want me gone. But they want you gone too If there is one other person with you that will agree with you to save me one more week that buys you one more week.
ky – I know you would stay loyal to me in this game. I am 100% open to those options right now the easiest way for me to do that is if you know of options that .. and of course.. I’m going to do this with everybody tomorrow.
Ky says he’s going to meet with everybody tomorrow and part of his question will be “hey is there a scenario where you can support Tiffany saying what’s the scenarios where you can support anyone saying”
Ky – that question is a consideration in what you are asking me because if the conclusion is not then I don’t know what to do with that. It’s like you said you being here is worse for my game. I have to evaluate what’s true and what’s not. those are considerations we all have to make at any given time in this game.
Ky – your loyalty as an individual may not be enough to move be forward
Ky says he needs to hear from two people that they support Tiffany staying
Tiff says she can have Azah and Hannah say that.
Ky – I need to hear that from them.
Tiff – If I made a deal with BIGD maybe he would support m staying X I don’t think so. I don’t even want to have a conversation with X.
Tiff says she’s not going to have any conversations until Ky tells her to go start having conversations.
T – I want to be loyal to you I owe you that I will vote how you want me to vote. I am offering my game to you
T – I respect your decision I’m sorry that I got us here and that you have to choose between me and whatever other option you had and I was the choice. I know I am the choice because I didn’t choose you I chose me instead. that is a hard lesson for me to learn. It’s one that comes back full circle in this house quickly. if that is what’s supposed to happen that is what happens.
T – I don’t want to ruin whatever you have keeping me ruins what you have than don’t
Ky – It’s not about what I have it’s about the overall impact moving forward with everyone in the house
Tiff – I know that you wouldn’t put me up without the votes to send me home I know the votes you need are there.
Tiff – I’m not going to BS you I will just go home. the last thing I want to do is lose your respect. lose whatever friendship we have. I know this is a game. but for me my bond with you is genuine. I am not going to BS you
Ky – you’ve always had me outside of this game.
Tiff says he needs to take Xavier out if he wants to win this season. “he’s playing a phenomenal game if he gets to the end it’s going to be tough”
They hug
“I’m sorry I’m the most difficult to work with I promise I will give my best effort to not be. I won’t be hard to work with I promise I will be a good girl I promise”
4:00 am – 5:30 am DF and Kyland
DF – Tiff goes out, Hannah goes out, Azah goes out that leaves us three.. then I’m hoping either you or I win then it’s guaranteed you and me are in the final 2. I want to make sure we’re keeping our word to each other and whatnot. I’ll go with whatever you want to go with. You know moving forward it’s just I know it’s very guaranteed that next week X will win then we’ll be good. The following week either me or you need to win
Ky laughs that they have no idea if X will win they don’t know what the competition will be.
Df – I’ve had my tough times and sh1t with Tiff. but that Saturday with me was all I needed. That was the nail in the coffin for me. I felt like damn she ain’t just coming me. She’s coming for Ky, She’s coming for X and then just not trusting you enough to let you win that HOH. put us all in this situation where we could have potentially could have lost one of us early. That could have happened. It was too close to the end to be making a selfish move without us discussing it.
DF – I’m always here to help you.. what can I do for you I ride with you this long. What can i do to make sure you are comfortable and whatnot..
DF – Ky to be honest I’m not expecting to win this game. what I do expect is my a$$ to be in one of those seats in the end. I do expect that I put in as much work as everyone else maybe in different ways
Ky – yeah we all have.
DF – we all have. I feel I did so much and been good to everyone I feel like I deserve at least a seat and I deserve at least second place that’s how I feel. (lol)
DF – I went to bed going.. Ky deserves to win this game. That is me coming to the reality that you’ve put in the work the time and the effort.
Ky – the game is not over there are cases for multiple of us to deserve to win this game.
DF – I get that..
Ky – there is a case for you, X, and Tiffany to win this game.
Ky – I will never for the rest of this game be as vulnerable as next week.
DF – I get what you are saying. .what are your concerns
Ky – anything.. the concept of umm.. I feel that .. uhh.. the… I feel like everyone… the reality is that uhh.. you, Azah, Hannah, X.. maybe not hannah. you, X, Azah can work with me next week by choice and Tiffany or Hannah would.. especially Tiffany and she’s not.. this is something I came up on my own before I talked to her. Tiffany uhh.. has to work with me if she stays.. And I think that I still believe that it’s my better option to send her home but that is the crazy part is. Now I am banking on people who I believe want to work with me VS someone that I know would have to work with me. Also she knwos that everyone else would send her home..
(God get the words out)
DF says next week him and X will protect Ky “we’re on the same team”
Ky – if I were sitting next to Tiffany for example.. if she stayed. azah’s voting, I don’t know if she’s voting for me to stay
DF – if you are sitting next to Tiffany. her and Tiffany have a close relationship
Ky – I know
DF – I don’t think it’s smart to keep Tiffany
Ky – I agree
DF – she’s voting for Tiffany to stay and you know that’s a vote against you. You have to get out the people that are not voting for you to stay. You have another powerful person that can go for the HOH next week that is good at a lot of things.
DF – If I win I’m putting up Hannah and Azah.. Straight up.. boom boom.
DF – anyone sits next to Azah, in the end, she’s winning.
Ky – I would never bring her to the end I don’t think any of us would.
6:00 am – 10:00 am zzzzzzzzz
10:30 am X and Hannah
X – How are you feeling about your one on one today?
Hannah – umm
X – who you are dealing with is Ky, Best case for you will be if you get pulled off. The second-best scenario you’re sitting next to Tiff. If Tiff comes off you will be sitting next to someone you’ll go home against. Ky is adamant that he wants to keep competitors. You’ve shown you are a competitor so that gives him the incentive to take you off. Umm but so is Tiffany. Between you and Tiffany he wants you to stay. When I was going to bed last night she was up there so she’s either trying to make a deal to come down and he puts somebody else up . If he wants to keep competitors he’s not going to put me up he’s putting up Azah or BIGD then you might be in trouble.
X – Between you and Tiff I THINK it’s in my best interest to keep you because you haven’t done anything to go against me. I don’t think you would.
X – your best angle.. He loves that competitor sh1t
Hananh says Ky doesn’t count specialty comps so technically her and Tiff have won the same number of competitions.
X – if he pulls you down you can be with im say HEY if I win the next HOH i’m not coming after you. If gives you some safeguard. If he leaves it the same you can make a similar deal.. HEY I’m not coming after you
10:47 am Azah and DF
Azah – And y’all don’t have a guys alliance?
DF – a what?
Azah – Guys alliance?
DF – NO
Azah – Okay
Hannah joins them.
DF – HI
Hannah – how are you
Azah – Good morning
Hannah – do you want me to give you guys like 5 minutes
DF – NOOOOOOo
Hannah – why did you say it like that
DF – I hate when people say Do you want me to give you
10:56 am – 11:40 am Tiff and Xavier.
Tiff saying this was a humbling experience for her “If I can do things differently than I would”
Tiff says she doesn’t like to be seen as hard to work with. Xavier says other than that one bump in the road they had he doesn’t think that’s the case.
They go over the season and how they’re not mad at each other. Tiff goes on about how much she respects Xavier.
Tiff- the humbling conversations are having the ones I want to run away on like this one.
Tiff says that Claire was ready to do some crazy sh1t to stay in the house. Tiff had to tone her down. Points out that through all that Claire never had anything bad to say about Xavier. Tiff doesn’t think there is anything bad to say about Xavier.
Tiff – “your character as a man is phenomenal.. the principles you stand on are very firm”
Feeds cut when we’re back Tiff is going on about how great Xavier is.
Tiff – you have displayed such integrity I am so happy that my son, my family, young men that have watched this and seen you, and kyland, and Derek as somebody they can identify with and look up to. people who are not familiar with our culture can hopefully have a more open eye and acceptance of who we are that we have good families where we come from
X – that was the key this season not only showing people that there are different shades of being black.. Each of those types of shades is respectable, is someone to admire someone to appreciate, and someone to love.. that is what the six represents because we’re all very different.
X – We’ve all had to lie deceive and manipulate there is one group that I would stick to my word no matter what and that was y’All after that it was my team. After that, it was Alyssa, Sarah Beth.
Tiffany – you are such a team player..
Tiff – I’ve gained some wisdom that is far more valuable than one win in this house. I think there are other conversations to have with other people just because… I don’t wanna leave anyone umm.. unknowingly uhh that I have an understanding of the things that have occurred and how I may have made people feel (Points at BIGD peeling potatoes)
Xavier – it is Sunday.. and the veto meeting is tomorrow I think first focus on your game. You still are in this game. You still have to do that first after the veto meeting I think you can have those conversations. until then you’re still tippy toes the only black female to win two back-to-back HOH’S you still got to fight You still got to do what you gotta do after the veto meeting.
X – I know you’re fighting it may somehow involve me too it’s the game.
Tiff – I am not saying any names I’m only fighting for me I’m not fighting to get someone else out of here
Tiff – I would love to stay. I would love to leave here with something. I would love to show that I am loyal to the people that help me get here.
They hug
11:45 am Peeling potatoes chit chatting with Xavier. (he does a lot of the morning cooking for everyone)
11:55 am getting that veto used
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Don’t let Tiffy Toes “new me” fool you Kyland!
Uh Tiffany…..What happened with Claire….. Uh…..KARMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What makes Ky’s arrogant word vomit even worse is that he actually believes what he is saying.
Ky – “It’s not that you trusted the wrong man it’s you stopped trusting the right one.” – Who does he think he is, Gandhi?
Ky – “The view you are expressing is very limited in terms of the actions of last week have affected everyone” – What actions? Not dropping off the rope the second Julie said “go,” so that Azah could win a comp? Tiff still put-up her only ally to be evicted to honor the alliance. He acts like she chopped-up small children and ate them in her breakfast cereal.
Tiff dug her own grave in this game, so I’m not here to defend her. I am here to say that Ky is an arrogant jack-@ss (the costume was fitting) who can’t fathom that he’s handing the $750k to X because his galactic-sized ego has rendered him senseless.
What lies did Kyland tell. He’s speaking the truth. Tiff messed up big time
When people talk about a mission for Tiffany and Hannah. That is not an excuse! If anything it just further proves how foolish they were in keeping men Who are going after them. This is why you don’t make decisions in BB bc of race.
Look no further look at Hannah and Tiffany – bad gameplay keeping X and Ky!
Mission? don’t even go there and say that because it is all on Tiffany and Hannah.
They that backed them selves into a corner and done this to themselves; each of them got rid of a final two. Alyssa was wanting to take Hannah to the end and cut Xavier at three which is why she felt betrayed by Hannah talking to Julie. I mean you do not get rid of final twos with 8 people left when all three men are coming after you?!?! They didn’t even think three steps ahead didn’t even consider what would happen if they kept those men and the men getting the power.
For getting rid of Claire and Alyssa Who had a final two with the respective HOH’s that took them out this is all on Hannah and Tiffany! You play and make decisions to further yourself to get yourself to the end of the game.
Hello? You play to win the game !!!
It made no effing sense keeping kyland and Xavier last week! Mission?
Don’t even start with that. Not an EXCUSE! This is the exact reason why you do not make decisions in big brother on race.
Re-read my post. I specifically said, “Tiff dug her own grave in this game, so I’m not here to defend her.” I did not suggest that anyone other than Tiff is responsible for her fate. I did not accuse Ky of lying.
My criticism is on Ky’s arrogant rhetoric and his high-and-mighty condescension. Sadly, his inflated view-of-self will cost him the game because he thinks he can beat X, and GROD already reserved the hero role for X.
The clothes make the man, so the costume made Ky appear as an ass.
Lol
Words of wisdom! LOL.
Kyland should leave the noms the same
and watch the two birds flutter their feathers
i do not care for them
Ky n X, X n Ky only real players there
fine with me
Hopefully they take each other to the final. A Joker winning would make this season a huge joke. History would be made, but the champ would be a major chump.
I have expected the whole show to be scripted from the beginning to a win for PoBoy DF. I mean, how else can anyone fathom a valid reason for him to even be on the show? You can’t tell me that out of all the gazillion applications that were received that there wasn’t someone more fit to enter a competition based show. Really?
“Famous Dad” prob. helped
“Anyone sitting next to Azah, she wins”. Depends on how bitter the jury is so the same can be said if X/Kyland is stupid enough to have DF sitting next to them in the finale
Warning long post (and big of a salty rant)
:
The comp times are DEFINITELY suspect — Big D came in second in BB Comics? Come on. Azah said I thought I did that in 9 mins (Ky won with 11 mins & thought he was MUCH LONGER). Tiff initially finished in 7 but had one wrong but somehow she timed out????? X didn’t beat Big D? (says he argued with production for eight minutes at least and was over 20 mins— so yeah don’t get it twisted TPTB gave BS times. Just add them to the list of people f*cking over Tiff this week.
My preference was for Tiff AND Hannah to be moving forward & as much as Tiff is my favorite this season the upcoming comps are better suited to Hannah.The CO men (specifically X) seem to be Grod’s choice to win & next week’s DE is only deterrent to that occurring b/c it’s live & TPTB can’t call hamsters in DR to force their hand.
Granted – there are narratives being set up — Big D suddenly coming in second twice in a row could be spun as him being more dangerous now (not to mention the $7.5k he already won), Ky having SIX (double to both X/Tiff) comp wins now makes him extremely vulnerable (esp at F5 DE) & someone X will definitely want out next. Interestingly, X who has NEVER said I want to take the best to the end is gaslighting Ky tonight in order to not go OTB. He’s not taking Ky no matter what that delusional ass thinks. NO GREAT BB Player would ever take a threat to the end unless they were tied at the hip from Day 1 & BFF’s Cody/Derrick, & Tyler/Casey for example. And that is NOT who Ky/X were to each other.
—————————————————————————————————–
Tiff also gets screwed in $$$:
Don’t even get me started about the money. I was pretty sure the weekly stipend was for 12 weeks not 15 & Hannah confirms that…
Big D: (to Hannah) “You got to get to 5th for the extra money. Tiff will leave with nothing” (as he doesn’t even try to hide his glee over this fact — asshole).
Hannah: She’ll get like $12k. (hence the 12 weeks is accurate – so they don’t get paid for quarantine)
As pointed out on previous page TPTB changed the prize money a few seasons ago with 3rd (+$10k), 4th (+$7.5k) & 5th (+$5k) players getting a bonus. So Tiff gets $12k and the big time shaft. Even if Big D is cut at fifth he’ll earn $24.5k b/c of the $7.5k he won in the domino POV. Sorry but I’m in my feels over him getting more than double what Tiff will (at minimum- $12.5) AND if he reaches F2 (which is apparently been increased to $75k) he’ll make $80.5k! I can’t!
SB got the extra $5k from comp, Ally won the phone & some other equipment (that is probably close to $5k) and DX is likely to make the extra $25k for AFP — and good for those players b/c the Cookout cut their shot at bigger bonus or winning game.
——————————————————————————————————–
Big D/X try to re-write history & claim all of Tiff’s moves as their own:
But what really burns my ass more than anything is now BigD & Xavier are trying to rewrite history by removing everything Tiffany did. They are saying the TWO of them started the Cookout & that THEY came up with the plus one strategy. Ummmm Big D if you came up with that strategy then why the F didn’t you pick a plus one? It’s absolute bullsh*t. We knew from the start that Big D had a hard on for Tiff but X to also be acting so petty is more confirmation of what an arrogant ass he is & it’s really p*ssing me off.
Big D: (to X) “You & I were the first two in the cookout and started to make the relationships with pawns.”
X: “Tiff thinks she made up the plan to get each person to have a pawn or be in a duo.
Big D: “I came up with it” (LIAR). We took out Travis, Frenchie, Brent and Whit. (that’s hilarious Big D didn’t want Brit OTB & X couldn’t shift target off Hannah going up — but now in their rewritten history everything was b/c of the two of them? STFU)
X: “I did not want Christian out, I wanted my team to stay. (no kidding)
Big D: We (X/him) did most of the grunt work. (UGH – again STFU)
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Grod/TPTB are who really screwed Tiff/Han:
While many are saying Tiff/Hannah trashed their games these past two weeks let’s remember Grodner/TPTB were the ones who FORCED the hamsters to stick with the CO they had no choice but to do as they were told (contract). And with only the CO remaining – we’re getting to see precisely how much Tiff (and Hannah) were the only CO members running strategy, influence and the game! The others are NOT strategic players.
Big D/Azah —were non factors in comps, strategy or influence and their social game is limited to being horizontal, calling women b*tches & cooking. X won one HOH & two POVs, was NOT able to influence HOH’s or shift votes (he tried once and failed). His claim to fame is Kings/CO/RF protection & TELLING people who to target. Tiff is being punished by him for not ENSURING Ally stayed that extra 30 mins (although we know his plan was to keep her longer in the game).
Tiff influenced HOH reigns ensuring Chris targeted Whit instead of Hannah & worked with DX on his HOH reigns. If she wasn’t forced to work with the CO she could’ve kept Chris b/c Brit was still willing to vote that way but by that point the CO (read TPTB) agreed to keep SB especially after a lengthy DR visit. Ditto for Brit’s exit (b/c Tiff had the votes to save her – but again TPTB forced her hand).
NOTE: Since Kyland has done FAR WORSE (and Azah was also considered difficult/emotional by X) the key takeaway here is EVEN IF Tiff had thrown the comp to Ky last week X was always going to find some sort of reason to target Tiff. You can’t blame her winning HOH & STILL putting up/taking out Claire as the sole reason why she’s less trustworthy than Ky who may I remind everyone also REFUSED to fall & give comp to Azah & went off on his own tangents repeatedly.
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Ky has LOSING strategy – & deserves to be evicted next:
Kyland has played a great comp game but his actual game strategy is arguably the WORST in the house. He’s targeting his ally, who definitely would’ve kept him at least until F3 and removing her vote while reinforcing X’s stranglehold by keeping his two horizontal game players that will always be X’s votes over Ky. AND if he wins out will select X to sit beside him – where he’ll lose (and lose badly).
I’d love for someone to explain Ky’s strategy as not being the worst in the house. He’s cutting one of two guaranteed votes/allies in favor of the “PERCEIVED” best player who’ll cut him the first opportunity he gets. X wanted Ky gone at F6 (discussed it for weeks) & only shifted when he got petty that Tiff refused to just play BB for him to win. Ky/X never talked game until last week it was Hannah/Tiff who kept X in the loop & discussed strategy with him & even those chats were NOT driven by X — his lone contribution was HIS PREFERENCE — not how to get there or why. The ONLY thing he was able to do consistently other than demand who left next is trash Tiff.
What Ky is doing is very different than Tiff/Han being FORCED to work with Cookout – – Now that it’s just the 6 of them, Ky is purposely electing to take out the two players who are his biggest allies in the house. Moreover — his lone reason for not trusting Tiff is b/c she refused to throw him the HOH last week. SERIOUSLY the guy who F’d Azah in the twice in this manner is using that as his reason he couldn’t trust Tiff. Once again we’re reminded of how petty the CO men are. B/c Tiff/Han/Az wanted Claire to stay to F7 instead of Ally it is resulting in Tiff’s game getting the shaft & her making the least money of the six.
Few things remain for me to pull for this season if Tiff leaves at F6— I’ll still pull for Hannah but I’ll be more invested in hoping all three CO men go right after her & NONE reach F2 chairs. I really hope they get called to answer for their misogyny & punking/degrading of Tiff this week once they are outside. My best case scenario would witness X leaving in the DE, Ky cut at F4, & Big D at F3. I know it won’t happen (b/c HELLO TPTB will tweak their results in upcoming timed comps) Although X has played a decent game (far from perfect & definitely NOT the best game) I don’t like how he treated the women or how petty he is. Expecting 15 people to play for you to win & throwing fits when the don’t doesn’t merit in my top strategic game play — nor do I respect someone being so cruel when they don’t get their way. I’m a NOPE on all three CO men.
Each of them has treated/spoken poorly about the women & this week in particular are showing their true colors. They are isolating Tiff (has X even spoken to her yet?) all b/c heaven forbid she wanted her opinion to be equally important to theirs & won that extra comp. I’m over all three of them
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Forcing Tiff to bend a knee & grovel points to how much I despise the CO men:
And how is Tiff supposed to play a game with someone like Ky? Someone who refuses to look at his own failings & shortcomings where ONLY HE is ever right. Sadly he forced her to belittle herself & bow down to him (look at the picture of his smug face looking at the camera as she says “I’ll be a good girl”)
Tiff: “I see no one who would keep you at F3 — I would & I know I brought this upon myself” (this conversation is all based on Tiff winning HOH last week).
Ky: “You brought it on us both.” (OMFG — I can’t)
Ky: “You (Tiff) are not in the position because you did not trust the right man but because you stopped trusting the right man” (SERIOUSLY– he’s blaming her going out on the fact she refused to throw HOH to him – — I swear he is one of the worst BB strategists ever– ridiculous)
It continues to be a point of discussion between the men…
Big D: “Tiff not letting Ky win that HOH that she won, Tiff made a selfish move. She put them all in a bad spot”. THIS from the man whose been complaining about getting 2nd in last two comps & constantly asking for people to throw him comps — STOP — does ANYONE believe DF would EVER throw a comp he had a remote chance at winning? I mean the level of poor game play & lack of logic from these guys is beyond annoying and oh wait — didn’t Ky do that specifically to Azah the week SB was supposed to leave the first time?
Ky: “I can identify Tiffany’s lies, Chaddahs’ game, she’s bad at it. I was like, you didn’t even know these things Tiffany was doing. (NO KY – Hannah is LYING to you – it’s YOU who are bad at this game but too arrogant to ever believe you are wrong – Chaddah is MISTING YOU).
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Big D changing his game goals to F2 (SHOCKER)
AND — of course the original rhetoric he spouted about “just wanting to get to jury — then just wanting to get to F5 — then just wanting to get to F3 — is now — just wanting to get to F2 (I mean we KNEW it was coming…)
Big D (to Ky) “I do not expect to win this game but I do expect to sit in the F2 chairs. I put in so much work and have been so good to everyone. I deserve to be in the F2”
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Sad end to BB23:
While I do see what Tiff is doing. She’s recognized logic will not work with Ky – that even when she blatantly points out X wanted him gone at F6 he REFUSES to believe her. Some have said she should tell him but I’M THE BEST PLAYER but the problem is NO WOMAN could be considered that by Ky — only a male.
So instead she is forced to humble & belittle herself, & claim she’s so very sorry for not bowing to his mastery in the game & just be a good little girl & do what he wanted. It’s nauseating & we KNOW she’s doing what he wants b/c he keeps AGREEING with her – that she f’d up her & his game by not trusting him (even though he repeatedly lied & went rouge in his actions). I’m not suggesting Tiff didn’t make mistakes in the game — she did. But Ky went rouge far more often & won’t admit to ANY of his failings. X is a baby who throws fits & tantrums when people don’t do what he wants. NEITHER man has been called to the mat for their behavior or lies but Tiff has to grovel & humiliate herself begging to stay in the game.
All 3 men are claiming she is getting what she deserves, that they outplayed her, were loyal honest & less selfish than her. But to add insult to injury they are now also taking credit for her strategic moves, influence & social skills that was the PRIMARY reason the Cookout got to 6. All six played a role but Tiff was by far the most instrumental & she was set up to run the house until Christian/DX were ousted (and trust that Tiff had both men more on her side than either X or Ky).
As for last night’s session where Tiff had to bend the knee & grovel to Ky, I think she made one mistake in the pitch — telling Ky she will vote for him & help him with jury votes. That only incentivizes him to send her to jury. Perhaps this is all a plan just to get off the block & then reset. I’m hoping that’s the case b/c then we’d see her pushing Azah to keep Hannah.
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One long shot (grasping at straws) hope
Meanwhile X is suggesting he’ll tell Han that he’ll convince Ky to take her off so she won’t target them at F5. Briefly they worry how Azah would vote (come on guys you can’t say Azah never lied & then say you don’t know who her #1 is b/c she REPEATEDLY told you both Big D was). Plus we get X in his typical arrogant fashion stating it doesn’t really matter b/c NO WOMAN can beat him in comps. And Later even Big D confirms with Ky that Azah would take him to F2.
Soooo…. it’s a VERY LONG SHOT & would likely require a big Ky about face & TPTB interference but there is a scenario still where Tiff or Han could be taken off the block (prob Han). If Grodner wants to keep the dedicated fans in this game she would force this to happen & then force Azah to vote out Big D (with Tiff/Hannah pushing how guys will cut her before Big D/how he lied to her about his other deals & he already earned $7.5k extra). I know it prob won’t happen but I’m clinging to straws now.
Big D isn’t a BB historian but surely X has to know the live feeders know the reality of what went down — the fact both are trying to claim Tiff’s actions is mind boggling to me. These three CO men are among the most arrogant, conceited, chauvinists to ever play the game (and frankly I’ve gone from liking them all at season start – to disliking all three). The more they push this narrative the more they’ll be exposed post game. BUT — in the interim we’re going to have to sit through this nonsense & possibly TPTB also letting them. It’ll be somewhat difficult since they showed Tiff’s strategy on TV episode so even casual viewers will be scratching their heads over the guys trying to claim all Tiff’s moves.
Tiff didn’t deserve this outcome – TPTB forced her to play ball & now she has to also be ridiculed by X/DF, be made to bow down humbly to Ky & on top of it will earn significantly less money.
Rarely does my preference win the game but this Tiff slight ranks among the worse outcomes to IMHO the best player this season (and undoubtedly top 4). The fact that neither Ky or X are getting ripped for their bad choices, lies or selfishness but Tiff is being forced to grovel is just plain wrong. I’ve watched from the start & was disappointed when Danielle Reyes didn’t get the rightful win, Kaysar’s ousts, Janelle never reaching F2, Britney Haynes oust for the 3 Brigade males etc but I can’t recall ever being this disappointed or angry about the manner in which a player is being treated. I knew her path was likely the hardest — I just didn’t expect the players or TPTB to make her grovel & embarrass her on her way out the door.
Zero chance DF got 2nd place in BB Comics unless the zipline was replaced with a recliner.
Most likely a bed.
There’s an awful lot to be exasperated about when it comes to the past two weeks of this season. From what I’ve read on here and on the socials, the edit has been incredibly twisted compared to the feeds. Expected, but I get the feeling it’s worse than just flippyfloppy timey wimey edit sequences out of order like in usual seasons.
The veto this week is farcical. It’s just the latest in a string of ridiculous examples of individual time comps being absolute crap. I have had zero faith in the vetoes this season since… wow, it’s been weeks.
Production is doing too much. I could pull out my list, but we’ve both noted each and every instance already of production doing too much.
The grovel? Given the chauvinist personalities expressed by the three men of the cookout, you had to see that coming. To be clear, Ky has been playing the way Tiff has been playing all season. The only person that has been clear on holding Ky to account has been Azah, and she’s been dismissed as being emotional, and not having a valid argument; all three men have been holding Tiff to account and expecting the other women to share that view or else. Reality: Tiff is a bigger threat than Ky in front of a jury, so of course they socially engineered her vilification. That was the point of X repeatedly pushing Tiff as the target. It was never because she won HOH and broke cookout. It was ALWAYS because she won HOH and had the social game with the jurors. I doubt the edit showed that in the D/R.
To answer Tiff’s question: should she have trusted Ky more or not at all? Not at all. He’s been the one feeding anti-Tiff intel to Couch and X since week 3 to cover his own game by misdirection.
In a season where we all determined the game was between the two alpha boys weeks ago, it’s scantly surprising that the woman whose game style has been on par with theirs is being edited more harshly, and shown the door at the first opportunity.
What did we expect? Well, I didn’t expect to read about the villain edit that could jeopardize Tiff’s social media robbed queen status. But, tbh, after watching BBcan9, I’m not surprised by this season at all. Take what happened there in the storyline, amplify and make more divisive to remove ANY velvet glove whatsoever (and that velvet glove was threadbare in 9)… and you have BB23. I guess trusting the viewers to see subtlety is a leap too far for Grod.
Let’s all face it…the show has gone to sh!t. Some seasons were bad in the past, but this season has me wondering why I ever loved this show. I do feel bad for everyone that had to be evicted because they were the wrong color. Now it appears that even if you are the preferred color, if you don’t pee standing up, you are not worthy of staying. These men are obnoxious and if any of them go on to win, well, I guess TPTB will have gotten what they wanted. Don’t they realize or care about the fan base and ratings that they have lost? Guess not…
I could not agree more with you! If this is what they are representing to be stand up guys then shame on them, the nerve of them to think they are the only ones worthy of winning. They are the least deserving. The 3 men left are not worth pulling for. DF thinks he deserves to be at least 2nd, get out of here with that mess. They are not a good example of how to treat anyone, much less women. Unbelievably arrogant! I am truly disgusted watching Tiffany grovel cause she didn’t fall on her sword for the masters!
Ideal scenario (it’ll never happen) is that Ky takes down Hannah or Tiff and puts up X. Then Azah and Hannah or Tiff vote out X. I think Tiff should really sell to Ky that if they take out X, the only person he has really pissed off is Big D. And Big D isn’t winning anything. Plus he would have Hannah and Tiff working with him. That’s a sure way to get to final 3. If he sticks with X, Hannah might win HoH and put him up. Or X or Big D might blindside him (esp if Big D has to choose between Ky and Azah). Plus Ky would be able to add to his resume that he got out X (who everyone says is going to win unless he’s taken out ASAP). I feel like this is a win-win for Ky. But unfortunately he doesn’t seem to listen to women, he takes his advice only from men (*face palm*)
As much as I agree with you that cutting X would be in everyone’s best interest to have a shot at winning the game, I think that Ky passed the point of no return with his nominations. The problem is that Azah will never, ever vote out X (she’s already envisioning designs for her “X” tattoo and living happily ever after). Meanwhile, DF will never, ever vote out X over Tiff or Hannah (he hates women). So, even if Ky takes down Tiff or Hannah, it will be impossible to vote-out X because Azah and DF will vote-out the other option.
Ky chose to ride with X when he made his nominations, so he’s gotta stick with it now. I think it was a big mistake. I think he would’ve had a better chance at winning the game by nominating DF & Azah with a backdoor X option, then cutting X with Tiff & Hannah’s votes. In that scenario, he could dominate the physical comps and potentially beat any of the rest of the remaining HGs in final two. But it’s too late now. I just hope X holds-up his end of the bargain and doesn’t cut Ky at F5 or F4 because an X, DF, Azah F3 would be an insult to all of creation.
If Tiffany leaves this week then I hope X wins HOH in the double and puts Ky’s ass up and sends him out the door. That would be poetic justice at it’s finest… Or better yet, Hannah wins HOH and nominates both X and Ky. Either of those outcomes would be fine by me.
I just don’t think Hannah has the guts to do it. She’s much better at being the rat, going around and telling everybody’s secrets to their enemies – she’s been doing it the whole game. She’ll probably throw rather than have to take the chance of stepping up and nominating 2 people, and risk pissing people off.
She would definitely do it! You got Hannah pegged wrong! She would put up X n Ky
Karma would be X winning the DE HOH and sending Ky out the door 30 minutes after Tiff… But it would also be hilarious if Hannah did it instead lol
Big D is a total waste of space. He has won nothing this entire game. Why does he feel that he deserves to be taken to the Final 2 ?. Every week, it’s the same ole same ole, if I win I’m going to do this, when I win I’m going to put up blah blah blah, but when the competition starts, who’s the first person out ? BIGD!!
I would love to see Big D siting on the block, and actually be voted out. The man has done nothing the entire game but lust after Ky, I love how he said that he and X will protect Ky next week, how is that going to happen ? Big D complains about how the comps are not for a man his size, the when it is a mental Challenge, He blows that !! I’m sorry, Big D is just bad at this game, and he is not the brightest light in the box.
Taking Big D to final 2 is a slap in the face to everyone who actually played the game, why take someone to the end who just laid around, cooked, cleaned, and talked about all that he was going to do when he won HOH. This man has done nothing to deserve winning money in 2nd place, if I were Ky, I would not have him sleeping with me, Ky seems to be willing to do anything to ensure he has your vote, even let Big D share a bed with him, hug him, plant a kiss on him.
Big D annoys the hell out of me, when he got on Azah about not really doing anything this season, what makes him think he has done anything ? Azah should have asked, when did he win HOH ? When did he win POV ? exactly what impact has he had on the game except for always talking about what he’s going to do. Big D is a BIG LOSER, he can’t get it straight on how to tell Julie who he votes to evict every week, what the hell does I evict vote ??? it’s I vote to evict.
Big D should have stayed home on his own couch at home and watched BB23. Because he has done nothing this entire season, he has been a total waste of space, and he’s very annoying.
PLEASE EVICT Him, I’m tired of listening to him, Send him packing to the Jury House. He can cook and clean for the people in Jury.
I can’t think of any other season in which the useless HG dragged deep into the game annoyed me as much as DF. Production gave him false hope that America loves him when they gave him $100 two weeks in a row. No chance in hades that he won those votes. Production continued to coddle him by feeding him in the DR when he was a have-not. There seems to be no consequence for DF’s bad behavior, and sadly Julie won’t call him out on his bad behavior like she has done for others in prior seasons.
As for Ky letting DF sleep in his bed… Ky has moved from SB to Tiff to DF. If Ky was a woman, the entire fandom would be calling him a wh*re. (And for the record, I’d actually like to see Ky in F2 because he played the game… just have to point-out the double-standard).
Ok did I miss something? I thought Alyssa was next in their list, then the cookout would be left.. so they’re going against the alliance and keeping Alyssa? Didn’t everyone freak out about sending Claire home and every other person not in the alliance? I’m confused
Alyssa is already gone. She went home in the first DE….
Kyland should use the veto on Tiffany and put up Azah. He would score points with the jury if he makes it to final two.
Thanks again TTOTambz and San Diego Gal. I enjoyed your post and agree with you both on this and a few posts earlier. You stated what I was thinking as with wit and game insight. Yes it was heartbreaking to see Tiff grovel to Ky like that. I just can’t watch anymore. I wanted to but there is , oh I don’t know a silence a sadness. not becuase of Tiff or anyone of them.. just something. It is clear: X wins and takes Ky to the end. I have no doubt X and Ky will remain true to each other. They both keep Azha and D around because the are easy to beat. Think about it: Azah would let X walk on her if he asked her and Ky knows Big D is in love with him, so Big D will also do what Ky wants. Ky really does believe he is Cody. He thinks, so does X, they will have tons of followers after the game is over. Big D expects he will get TV gigs because after all, he “has done so much in this game.” I have a big questions mark about all of that. Kyland does indeed camera talk because he thinks this is what America wants to hear. Ky as a comp beast there is no question he is but having charm that’s a “nope.” Some of the condescending things he said to Tiffany during their conversation that both you and San Diego Gal used for examples makes Ky’s true nature clear. I do see X taking Kyland, X knows folks don’t like Kyland. What makes me frustrated is Big D and Azah have done nothing except prove you really can float to the final 4. Okay end of rant and on to manifesting a great moderator for the jury house( Janelle, Dr. Will, Dan) While I am proud of this alliance , what they achieved, and this house has enjoyable likable personalities (cough Sarah Beth who is just a jealous and insecure person) they had fun together even if it was corny at times they made their situation work for them. Why do I still feel so unsatisfied with X’s inevitable win, Ky’s second place and delusion he will be invited back like Cody and finally win) Big D in an undeserved 3 instead of Hannah and Azha happy with whatever.. I think X, Ky, and Big D are expecting a parade, an invitation to the White House invites to other TV shows etc.. except for Tiffany is their any one of them that has the popularity or personality pull of a Janelle or Kaysar…. Tara.. Dan.. Simon or Dawg????
Thank you for your kind words. I have the feeling that X, Ky, and DF are all going to be very disappointed when they return to the real world. If social media is any indication, they don’t have nearly the love from the fans as Tiff, Hannah, and DX. Even Azah has fans, which seems to defy logic, but she has fans nonetheless. If anyone is going to be invited back for another season, it will be Tiff, Hannah, Claire, or DX. If anyone is going to have “opportunities outside the house,” which some of the HGs are starting to reveal is their interest, it will be Tiff, Hannah, and/or DX. I don’t see a world in which X, Ky, or DF can ride the wave of their Big Brother fame. But they will have the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place prize money.
Thank you Moaning Myrtle — appreciate the kind words.
We are on the same page regarding the treatment of Tiff — it’s unnecessarily cruel. ICYMI she spoke to X in glowing terms calling him a role model for Christian (her son) — little does she know how he trashed her for a solid week running or misogynistic nature.
I tapped Tiff early in the season as the best player and since there was no way for her to counter the male bias or function on an even playing field I still feel she was BB 23’s best player. Sure, she could’ve blown up the CO but if she did she’d be ostracized in her community. It was a no-win situation for her. Ky is an incredible competitor, X is great at hiding in the shadows of protection & Hannah is one or two years away from being a master player. If BB (Grodner) cared about having a landmark season she wouldn’t have screwed two of these four to drag two goats to the end.
As for Azah’s popularity – she’s humorous, kind, honest & provides the best GBM’s to exiting players while Hannah’s association with DX kept her high on the popularity list (combined with her ties to the true mastermind – Tiff).
The last week to 10 days has been super tough to provide unbiased posts b/c Ky was forgiven his copious shady moves while Tiff was ostracized, ridiculed & treated cruelly for the simply infraction of having a different opinion/boot order than X/the CO men. Even after she made the right gesture instead of being selfish they continued to trash her.
What makes it clear this is production based is how Ky was forgiven for all his transgressions. After WEEKS of X wanting him out at F6 suddenly he makes a F2 with him just prior to F6 HOH (yeah that doesn’t reek at all). The hypocrisy is rampant with Ky punishing Tiff for not throwing him F8 HOH & for Hannah putting him OTB even though she didn’t want him up. But meanwhile he didn’t throw 3 different comps like he was supposed to, got angry at Big D wanted to offer a sympathy vote — but those issues are just swept under the rug (come on — it’s BS).
Anyway – I’m losing interest rapidly & not just b/c Tiff will likely exit at F6 or b/c X/Ky will be propelled to F2. It’s having to listen to Big D’s constant lies & the CO men breaking their arms patting themselves on the backs. It’s sad Tiff won’t get at least the fifth place bonus money or participate in the F4 festivities but hey Grodner loves her alpha males.
Everything out of these men’s mouths is annoying the F outta me.
Tiff (to X) “your character as a man is phenomenal.. the principles you stand on are very firm. You have displayed such integrity I am so happy that my son, my family, young men that have watched this and seen you, and kyland, and Derek as somebody they can identify with and look up to. people who are not familiar with our culture can hopefully have a more open eye and acceptance of who we are that we have good families where we come from.”
Imagine poor Tiff when she learns about how X has spoken about her (and women in general) behind her back. I doubt she would want her son Christian treating women like second class citizens. I doubt she would counsel him to believe his efforts are more valuable than women’s or to claim a woman’s efforts as his own in order to gain recognition or that belittling women or being cruel to them was acceptable.
After what I’ve witnessed of late I doubt any of this makes a difference — but I hope it sinks into X just what he did last week to Tiff over the difference of an opinion & her 14 year old son had to sit there & watch X’s week long constant smack talk about his mother.
No Tiff you do not want your son to be another X — teach him to respect, admire & celebrate strong females like you!
When Tiff decided to win the HOH and try to keep Claire for another week, she went against the rest of her alliance. She is now paying the price for betraying their trust.
X just comes down and ask if everyone has eaten yet? Kyland said no one has eaten! X says “WTF I thought we we’re acting brunch, it’s 2:00”. He expects everyone to cook for him. How bout you get your lazy ass and cook for your damn self! Entitled ass!
Tiff’s eviction by Ky would be a love letter to SB to be quickly followed by X’s love letter to Alyssa if Hannah can’t pull of a win of HOH or VETO. Those 2 are GARBAGE trying to set themselves up for jury and AFTER the game. smh